Summary Mark Zaid (X, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss American intelligence and the law. You’ve heard of a “lawyer to the stars,” Mark is the “lawyer to the spies” What You’ll Learn Intelligence The quirks of being a lawyer in this space How the Espionage Act works in practice  The trial of the Rosenbergs The origins of FOIA and its purpose The Legal foundations underpinning espionage and intelligence Reflections Challenging authority  The delicate balance of secrecy And much, much more … Quotes of the Week “I still love working every day, 30 years later, because there's still something new. As much as I fight for declassification and transparency, I will at times also see information and learn of events where I go, “Oh, I get it. Yeah, that stuff cannot be known. That's incredible what we did. That's pretty wild.” – Mark Zaid. Resources  SURFACE SKIM *SpyCasts* Agent of Betrayal, FBI Spy Robert Hanssen with CBS’ Major Garrett and Friends (2023) David Petraeus on Ukraine & Intelligence with the former CIA Director & 4* General (2023) Havana Syndrome – A Panel featuring Nicky Woolf, Marc Polymeropoulos, and Mark Zaid (2023)  How Artificial Intelligence is Changing the Spy Game with Mike Susong (2023)  *Beginner Resources* What Is a Whistleblower? Protections, Law, Importance, and Example, W. Kenton, Investopedia (2022) [Short article] What is a Lawyer? American Bar Association (2019) [Short article] Legal System Basics, CrashCourse, YouTube (2015) [8 min. video] DEEPER DIVE Books State of Silence: The Espionage Act and the Rise of America's Secrecy Regime, S. Lebovic (Basic Books, 2023) Ethel Rosenberg, A. Sebba (Griffin, 2022) Spies on Trial: True Tales of Espionage in the Courtroom, C. C. Kuhne (Rowman & Littlefield Publishers, 2019) Primary Sources  A Letter from Aldrich Ames on Polygraph Testing (2000) Whistle Blower Protection Act (1989)   DoD Polygraph Program (1984) National Security Decision Directive 84 (1983) Inspector General Act (1978) Freedom of Information Act (1966)  Administrative Procedure Act (1946)  Espionage Act (1917) *Wildcard Resource* John Adams, a 2008 HBO Mini-Series chronicling the Founding Father’s role in early America John Adams, much like Mark, was a lawyer dedicated to the right to representation. Adams, ever dedicated to the honor of his profession, was the only attorney who agreed to defend the British soldiers involved in the Boston Massacre. You can read the whole trial here.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices