Summary The conversation begins with a lighthearted exchange about poetry and music trivia. They discuss the bands POD and Saliva, and reminisce about the new metal era. They then shift to the topic of tour cancellations and the challenges faced by indie bands in the current music industry. They touch on the issue of ticket prices and fees, as well as the impact of social media on fans' perception of bands. The conversation concludes with a discussion about the need for government intervention to address monopolistic practices in the music industry. In this conversation, Andrew and Craig discuss the evolving dynamics of the music industry, particularly in the hardcore and metal genres. They explore how bands like Turnstile and Knocked Loose have transitioned from playing small shows to performing on big festival stages, and how the merging of genres has led to a crossover of fans. They also discuss the changing landscape of the music scene post-pandemic and speculate on the future of touring and monetizing content. The conversation concludes with a discussion about the band Foxing and their upcoming album, highlighting their artistic integrity and potential for success. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Music Trivia 08:53 Tour Cancellations and Challenges for Indie Bands 16:36 Financial Risks of Going on Tour 19:24 The Impact of Social Media on Fan Perception 22:14 The Noise of Non-Fans' Opinions 26:29 Ticket Prices and Venue Sizes 30:13 The Changing Landscape of Hardcore Shows 31:10 The Need for Government Intervention 38:46 The Changing Landscape of the Music Scene 41:40 The Future of Touring and Monetization 53:01 The Artistic Integrity of Foxing 58:53 The Uncertain Ceiling for Foxing's Success