This episode is a little different from the normal Axe Files. David sat down at Arizona State University with two legendary political strategists: Karl Rove, the architect of George W. Bush’s campaigns, and David Plouffe, David’s old partner and the brilliant manager behind the 2008 Barack Obama campaign. You can find their personal stories in past episodes of The Axe Files (Karl Rove episode #80, and David Plouffe episodes #43 and #418), but in this conversation, they talked about the Biden-Trump rematch, which they all agreed is the most unusual campaign of their lifetimes. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices