Howdy, y’all, and welcome to The Cyber Ranch Podcast!  Our guest is Nathan Case, who is a previous guest from a multi-guest show.  Nate has been a CISO, CTO, Strategist, consultant, CEO, and all kinds of other things.  His career is as colorful and varied as Allan's – maybe even more so.  Nat's chosen topic is “There is no such thing as security!”  So without further ado, let’s dive in! What do you mean when you say “There is no such thing as security!”? Nate outlines declares it as way to judge risk If security is a way to judge risk, then what about the judging? There are metrics there, and some kind of end state, yes? So you’re saying our feelings about managing the unmanageable is really where the sense of security comes from? That ‘security’ = ‘feelings about risk management results’? How do I know what I don’t know? How does that relate to this definition of security? Let’s get concrete – What changes are needed for tools and tech to get past this false sense of security? If security is a description of a thing, or a specific action, where does this leave us?