In this episode of The Director’s Chair, Michael Fullilove speaks with the Secretary of the Department of Home Affairs, Mike Pezzullo. Mike Pezzullo is a lifelong official, described recently as ‘one of Australia’s most powerful public servants’. He has been a trusted adviser to both Labor and Coalition governments, the author of a Defence White Paper, and the prime mover behind a major restructure of Australia’s domestic security apparatus. He has been a senior staffer in both government and opposition as well as a public servant in the departments of Defence, Immigration and Customs, and Prime Minister and Cabinet. Michael and Mike reflect on Mike’s childhood in southern Sydney and discuss China, cybersecurity, Australia’s response to COVID, evolution of the Five Eyes intelligence alliance, and Australian foreign policy. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.