On this special episode of the podcast, Jaan Tallinn talks with Nathan Labenz about Jaan's model of AI risk, the future of AI development, and pausing giant AI experiments. Timestamps: 0:00 Nathan introduces Jaan 4:22 AI safety and Future of Life Institute 5:55 Jaan's first meeting with Eliezer Yudkowsky 12:04 Future of AI evolution 14:58 Jaan's investments in AI companies 23:06 The emerging danger paradigm 26:53 Economic transformation with AI 32:31 AI supervising itself 34:06 Language models and validation 38:49 Lack of insight into evolutionary selection process 41:56 Current estimate for life-ending catastrophe 44:52 Inverse scaling law 53:03 Our luck given the softness of language models 55:07 Future of language models 59:43 The Moore's law of mad science 1:01:45 GPT-5 type project 1:07:43 The AI race dynamics 1:09:43 AI alignment with the latest models 1:13:14 AI research investment and safety 1:19:43 What a six-month pause buys us 1:25:44 AI passing the Turing Test 1:28:16 AI safety and risk 1:32:01 Responsible AI development. 1:40:03 Neuralink implant technology