We think we know our country's leaders. But do we really? Ahead of her first budget day as finance minister, Tova O'Brien met up with Nicola Willis to talk superstitions, power, and the naughtiest thing she's ever done. Need more great podcasts? Check out Stuff's full catalogue here. GET IN TOUCH Feedback? We’re listening! Email us at [email protected]  CREDITS Written and read by Tova O'Brien Produced by Jen Black Audio editing by Connor Scott Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices