There’s so many acronyms in this episode, it might make your head spin. We talk about IRC, IBC, IEBC, ADA, FHA and more. John Anderson and I don’t do this to punish you, or make you feel confused. But, it’s critical to understanding the world of how buildings actually get built. John is usually good for at least a couple of one-liners, and this one is my favorite in this episode: Real estate development is a black box full of money and villains. You’ll learn in this episode why requiring sprinklers in small and middle-scale building isn’t necessary, and how it makes housing less affordable. We talk about single-stair reform, and understanding how the Fair Housing Act is a very different animal than the Americans with Disabilities Act. For more from John, check out his blog. Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page. Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5. Intro: “Why Be Friends” Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Transcript of Episode: Kevin K (00:01.81) Welcome back to the Messy City podcast. This is Kevin Klinkenberg. You know, we spent a lot of time in the world of whatever you want to call it, urbanism, planning, design, urban design, talking about zoning reform, especially for what we kind of call missing middle housing and the need to reform zoning codes to enable the production of sort of smaller scale. housing. And so I've had a number of episodes on that. We've talked about it. We'll continue to talk about it. But one thing we really haven't talked much about at all, and that's often overlooked, is the need for reform to building codes and building code and development approval processes generally with local governments. So my friend John Anderson started an email thread the other day. that, kind of dug into this issue and like a lot of John's emails, it was long and thorough and a little bit grumpy. and so I thought John and I should just, talk about it, because there's a lot of really great stuff here that I'm not sure that people think about, terribly much, especially if you're one of those people who wants to do small scale, development. whether new construction or rehab, especially for new construction, there's just a lot of other things to think about that you're going to have to consider and other things potentially to work on with your local government to try to reform. So that's a very long introduction to say, welcome John, how you doing? R. John Anderson (01:44.944) Good, I'm good. I'm glad that emails are really thin medium, so it's hard to get grumpiness to come across at the right amplitude. Kevin K (01:55.902) always comes across, you know, it's okay. But I've known you long enough to be able to even decipher it when it's kind of a little more subtle. R. John Anderson (02:06.724) Well, I'll tell you one thing that's. Kevin K (02:08.766) And then there are times that you and Gary Brewer go at it and it's not subtle at all. R. John Anderson (02:13.468) hi. I, it feels like, having a conversation with someone in Quebec where I just don't, our experience is so different. The world's way operator so far apart. It's it. I feel like we're too, you know, Neanderthal tribes meeting in the dark searching for a common word for fire without success. You know, so. Kevin K (02:37.63) Yeah. No doubt. No doubt. R. John Anderson (02:41.904) No, Fog thinks small house 500 square feet. No, Og thinks small house 3000 square feet. Kevin K (02:47.646) Exactly. $2 million is a reasonable budget for any new house, Yeah. R. John Anderson (02:52.046) Right. And you ought to have it specially designed by an architect because that's the world that he's operating in. Kevin K (02:58.812) That's okay. We love, we love Gary too. He's a brilliant designer. but, he long operated in a different stratosphere in terms of architecture. So John, let's, let's get into this a little bit. I think