Welcome to The Money Trench. In this episode, Mark is joined by two of the most influential music publishing execs of the last 30 years, Caroline Elleray and Mark Gale, co-founders of Second Songs. Caroline and Mark give us an in-depth look at their storied careers in the music industry, sharing the details behind starting Second Songs publishing and management, the dynamics behind working as both business partners and a married couple, and what the future looks like for the company. The conversation also covers the crisis of confidence and the use of data in A&R, the rise and success of UK songwriters, and the moment when Caroline first saw something special in Coldplay - long before anyone else did. NEWSLETTER Sign up HERE for the TMT newsletter - featuring each week’s hottest music industry stories. PPL  The Money Trench is sponsored by the PPL who celebrate their 90th year in business this year. KEEP UP TO DATE For the latest podcast and music business updates, make sure to follow us on:  Instagram: @the_money_trench LinkedIn: The Money Trench Website: The Money Trench GET IN TOUCH If you have any feedback, guest suggestions or general comments? We’d love to hear from you! - Get in touch here! Thanks to our partners PPL  Earth/Percent Tom A Smith Aimless Play Fourth Pillar Sennheiser Junkhead Studio Tape Notes Executive Producer: Mike Walsh Producer: Tape Notes