When we first spoke with Matthew Weatherly-White on the podcast in 2018 (Episode 14), we discussed recovery, athletic longevity, endurance, desiccants, exercising for an audience, intelligent self-awareness, transubstantiation, personal reinvention, the evolution of capitalism, impact investing, the discipline to do less than you think you have to, and tried to apply behavioral economics to fitness. It was an incredible conversation. Five years later, much has changed in the world and for us...

Michael starts the conversation by declaring that social media is a record of, "all of the stuff you don't normally do." Neither Blair, Erin or Mark could disagree so we moved on to the topic of expertise, addressing differences between that derived from actual experience rather than from a credentialing body or process and the value of each, as well as how expert conclusions are often shaped by funding (we see you, Nutrition). If science results from consensus, i.e. from a number of people...

Logan and Jariko are veterans, BRCC frontmen, and present-day explorers. They were part of team that set a record for 7 parachute jumps on 7 continents in less than 7 days. In this episode, we discuss fear, risk, and continually pushing the boundary of the unknown in order to have — and then share — new experiences.

Maury Irvine was born in San Francisco in 1924. He was deeply moved by the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor and immediately attempted to enlist in the Navy but due to a birth defect in one eye he was turned away. Maury was determined so went back 27 times, hoping to catch a recruiter who would let him pass, but didn’t. He was eventually hired by TWA Airlines, who had lowered the eyesight requirement because of the war, but after realizing he would be desk-bound there he joined the Merchant...

Mark and Blair sit down to talk with mountain athlete, Justine Hewitt. Blair and Justine met in the valley of the Grand Canyon a few years ago when both were running the Rim 2 Rim 2 Rim for fun and decided to finish their route together. Justine is accomplishing big feats in her local Utah mountains and beyond while remaining under-the-radar (for now). They discuss Justine’s 2022 win at RUFA (Running Up for Air), where she completed 11 laps on Grandeur Peak for a total of 63.8 miles and...

Phil returns for an attempt at a “more clear transmission.” In the last episode Phil felt like he was off, and true to his incorporation of HD he wanted to get the environment to be a better fit so that he could speak more clearly on a topic he knows at a very deep level. I think if you listen to both you can hear a difference. Chalk it up to “living your design",” or just a feature of getting more comfortable, either way, this episode explores HD from a different angle (even though we cover...

For the last few years, Erin and Michael have been entertaining the idea that there is a known, predictable pattern to how each human is deeply individual but operates within a given nature. This is known as Human Design. It is a quirky, surreal experiment of sorts, easily dismissible as woo, and yet, somehow, highly effective. Phil Redd was responsible for exposing them to the concept 3 years ago and has continued to teach them the intricacies of this vastly complex system with a skill and...

Mark sits down with Blair Speed to discuss the concepts of effort, process, competition and achievement in the context of climbing and trail running among other activities. They examine Blair's running and racing (and professional work) season, and talk about preparing for and executing two back-to-back 50km trail races. They conclude that one universal concept still holds true: pay attention, be self-aware, control what you CAN control in order to spare the horsepower needed to address what...

Michael, Erin, and Blair talk with “Cinnamon” about their experience at The Tactical Games back in March of 2022. They cover topics like women in tactical sports, using magical rocks for fitness gains, the fitness industry as a honey pot for identity, and micro-dosing corndogs.

Jesse is an actor, seeker, and thinker. He has a long list of professional credits, but what is more impressive is his desire to constantly reinvent himself. In this episode, he sits down with Erin and Michael to talk about his upbringing in a small Wyoming town, the long difficult road to breaking into the industry, and his approach to his profession that keeps him learning and exploring.

Michael and Elodie discuss the topic of coaching and whether to keep doing it or not. Between them they have decades of experience training and leading and guiding others but recently, their level of job satisfaction has been put to the test by clients who go through the motions and nod along to the thesis but are unable to grow and change. Eventually, "there is no amount of money that can make dissatisfaction OK ..." And so the questions become, "Why don't people emphasize self-knowledge to...

Climbing, Sailing, and Entropy Connor McCrillis made his first ice axe during his freshman year of high school. We begin this conversation on the topic of DIY by talking about homemade boats (originally a blend of wood and fiberglass), and his first ice axes (laminating wood and carbon fiber, and stainless steel for the head) then we take a deep dive into sailing, hydrodynamics, racing boats, and DIY boat building, and coaching juniors to race sail boats. Deeper in, we reach the main point...

During the 48-minute introduction to a discussion of the Capacity manual Michael and Burkey discuss fact checking, managing intent, contractual relationships, accurate communication (that sometimes requires punctuation), the differences between text and speech and the utility of each, and the peril of literal responses to emotional beings. Eventually they address the Capacity manual and how to communicate our position on the topic ... how difficult it is to correct existing problems without...

Adam is an Event Director, Tour Producer, and Artist Manager in the live music industry. He sat down with Michael to discuss the different aspects of music, the industry, and the general population’s relationship to entertainment. They cover ground on music as therapy, the troubles of industrialized psychedelic medicine, and inherent problems associated with commodifying art.

Christian Craighead was born in northeast England and joined the military at 16, eventually passing selection for the SAS where he served with distinction and made numerous operational deployments. In 2019 his actions — taken alone — during the Al Shabaab terrorist attack at the Dusit2 Hotel in Nairobi, which undoubtedly saved numerous lives, earned him the Conspicuous Gallantry Cross. We don't talk about that on this podcast — it's not our place — but we dive into some equally engaging topics.

We recorded this podcast with Adam Giles in early-2019 and after listening again recently we decided to rerelease it. Some may have missed it then, when the podcast had a different name, but we also made an interesting prediction or perhaps more accurately, extrapolation, that has bearing on some events in the 2020-2021 time frame. Adam's description of working at Nokia, and helping to launch the 6680 with a 2mp camera, is a trip back in time, to an era when some engineers were convinced that...

Ian Seabrook returns to the podcast after a three-year hiatus. Ian is an award winning Underwater Director of Photography in the motion picture and television industry who first appeared on Episode 55. At that time he was in Utah to document the production and release of REFUGE, the first large book produced by NonProphet. This year Ian's return coincided with the printing of POISON so we strong-armed him into making a short film about that.Ian's underwater credits include “Batman v...

Becky Switzer approaches life with an openness, acceptance, and celebration of life-long learning. She is an educator and athlete who invests deeply in her community and people. She spent her younger — "soccer is life" — years playing goalkeeper and earned her way to a college scholarship at that position. These days she is recognized as one of the top climbers in her home state of Montana. During this conversation we speak about expectations, responsibility, sport performance, gender...

Ben Staley returns to the podcast for the first time in a while. Last time we saw Ben was in Death Valley February 2021, the time before that was pre-COVID, also in Death Valley, November 2019. We have all grown and changed since then. Michael and Mark chat with Ben about religion, and what a cool guy Jesus was, or maybe was, and conclude that if you just act like him you would be a pretty good person. Late we discuss "the art of making art", training one's creative muscle and habits, and how...

In this episode, Michael, Erin, and Blair discuss fad diets. Blair shares her extreme introduction to the importance of a sans-gluten practice, and what it’s like to grow up in Florida on Hamburger Helper. After introducing The Buttery Bros to the practice of eating raw organ meat, Erin thought it would be productive to discuss the details about a small but growing community of food snobs that have taken an extreme position in only consuming raw meat and raw foods. Based on a centuries-old...

Pat Callis is an icon of climbing history in North America. His first ascents and early attempts span the distance from Southern California to northern-Alberta, Canada. While this conversation may not seem relevant to the topic of fitness, I believe it is because endurance is fitness and Pat is still climbing (and well) at 84 years of age. Our discussion will, I hope, become an important moment in the oral history of climbing. We discuss the first ascents of the Great White Throne in Zion,...

Michael and Mark start with a shallow dive into diet, then address the complicated vs simple conundrum and how people are first seduced by the apparently more effective nature of complicated or complex means only to learn — through actual experience — that the simple and fundamental are often more effective and reliable. And because this is current events podcast, aka the worst fitness podcast in the world ;) they discuss censorship, aka content moderation, freedom of speech, and the great...

Michael and returning guest, Josh Tyler sit down for an intimate discussion on energy, the physical, metaphysical, and how the inexplicable world may map into the material. They talk about gender, sex, and energy as it relates to “old world” knowledge, and how creative energy is sexual energy, or possibly, how you mate might be how you do anything.

This podcast was originally recorded in June 2018, six months after Mark's first hip replacement. We are reposting this conversation, which focuses on injury, recovery, and return to activity in light of Mark's second hip replacement, and the fitness lost during a period of idleness enforced by a positive COVID test and seven-week moratorium on surgery imposed by the local hospital system. Michael and Mark speak with Andy Dorais, an E.R. physician who has represented the U.S. in the Ski...

Aaron Mulkey is a climber and kayaker, likely best known for the hundreds of first ascents he has made in Wyoming and Montana, so we talk about climbing and the exploration required to discover new drainages where ice might form. But before that we speak about kayaking and whitewater and the dynamism of the medium compared to the relative calm nature of the climbing environment.Early in the conversation I describe an encounter between Michael Dimitri, Steve Mascioli and a malnourished black...