Today my long time outdoor compadre Kenji Haroutunian makes his 3rd appearance on the show. As longtime director of two top-fifty trade shows in the country (and many events and services beyond), Kenji’s experience has afforded him a truly independent viewpoint to best understand the ebbs and flows of business trends, successes, failures and the tools that can be applied these days to make a difference. Facebook​ ​Twitter​ ​Instagram​ Love the show? Subscribe, ​rate, review, and share!​ Sign up for my Newsletter ​HERE​ I’d love to hear your feedback about the show! You can contact me here: ​[email protected] Brought to you this week by Alabama Beaches Show Notes 04:27 The pivot from outdoor retail (A16) to trade shows. I don't quite remember how that happened. I had been managing stores, a store manager for Adventure 16 in L. A. and then in the Valley store, and was back in the L. A. store managing there. And then got a call from Larry Harrison, who was. Put on task by the outdoor retailer team to go find their next account exec. There was a long-time account executive who was leaving, and they're looking to fill that spot. And I said, like, well, what's an account executive? It's not something that I was familiar with and sounded pretty fancy, but you know, long story short, I interviewed down in Laguna Beach with the team. And then, back then, it was called Miller Freeman, who was the owner of the outdoor retailer shows. And I got hired there as a salesperson having zero experience selling space or advertising, and starting in, in earnest, my career in the media slash shows business. 08:00 The Big Gear Show Big Gear rose up out of what was the paddle sports retailer show. So that was a show launched by a couple of guys from the paddle sports industry who became sort of unhappy with the timing of outdoor retailer. Paddle sports was a big part of the outdoor retailer show, and they passed. They took their boat, went off, and started their own show. Out of that came the desire to be more inclusive categorically. So, instead of just paddle sports, why don't we bring in hike, running, camping, and biking and create a more comprehensive and inclusive platform? And so that's where the Big Gear Show came from. It launched in 2020. 14:29 Outdoor Biz Evolution Those trade shows were all a bunch of guides, and, you know, we were young kids who worked at the retail shop floors and stuff. It was not as sophisticated then as it is now today. You're right. That evolution is big. And I think, you know, the infusion of capital market representatives, you know, I, it was very different. You're right. You know, during my time, for example, at the show's helm was during the time when financial investors started showing up in numbers dozens and then like hundreds of people were coming, and we even created an event for them called what's that called, Fund Source? And it was specifically designed for new brands to pitch to investment community people and get valuable feedback and maybe even score an investor, you know, in the, in the sort of mode of Shark Tank. Right. But it was, I think Camber Outdoors is helping to sponsor it. 17:10 Do you have any thoughts on how that shakes out, consolidates, and continues to expand? I shy away from the word trade show anymore because it's kind of a loaded term. It kind of almost by default says the old. Way or the old show model that were the outdoor industry anyway, has become passé. And I think that whatever we're going to call the new show model you know, at big gear, we call it B2B2C or just simply like an inclusive platform that makes less of a deal of your categorical status. You know, interestingly, you know, I, I have a, well, I don't have my badge on right now, but I came in the show and they had sort of parsed the show entry timing by what kind of badge you had. So it was like, you get an eight, if you have this badge, get an 11, if