Elaine, from Telford, in Shropshire, England sends in this first listener question for discussion today. “Like you guys probably, I’ve been to many public meetings, run by scientists who specialise in systems thinking, filled with community activists, trying to develop new more sustainable circular systems that society can then hang itself on, and frame itself around. The aim being to try and mitigate the climate and ecological crisis that we all face. We don’t have to try too hard these days to convince people we need to act to avert disaster, because unless the natural world's health is generally good, then humanity will struggle to survive. The general issue and barrier to people making changes in their lives is there's a lack of leadership and direction from the people with the power to galvanise us. The leaders, decision makers and people with vested interests in maintaining the ‘business as usual’ attitude, rarely attend these meetings, or absorb the feedback these meetings produce. How do we break down the ‘them and us’ culture that's evolving in the adaptation process we’re all in, and how do we get everybody at these meetings, instead of the separation and separate meetings we see now? It's not too late, we’ve not yet polluted as much as we think, and the unfairness in the world's societies is not too advanced either. That's just my view, and my view is there's still an opportunity for a fair and just survival”. Stuart infers that Elaine’s question pertains to the doughnut economy framework, which proposes a social and ecological boundary for human development. He asserts that one of the challenges to implementing this framework is the low self-efficacy of potential stakeholders. He illustrates this point by recounting the case of someone he knew who shunned meeting attendance, irrespective of the agenda. Stuart observes that meetings often induce a herd mentality, where individuals conform to the prevailing opinions and suppress dissent and alternatives. He recommends that a more productive strategy is maybe to distance oneself from emotional attachments, listen attentively to diverse viewpoints, and refrain from judging others. William worries that these meetings can make certain attendees feel dumb, because one can’t always follow the jargon thrown around. The second listener question discussed today is from Paco, in Wimbledon, England. “I’ve seen viruses and pathogens that have been extinct for 30,000 years, but found frozen in the world's ice caps, have been reactivated in the laboratory when pairing them up with ameba. If these frozen viruses emerge from the melting ice and find their way into the world's rivers and oceans, do they pose a new threat to humans as they could morph into something else if the conditions are perfect, like in the lab?” William wonders if living in the wrong place as it were, your geographical location, can make you more susceptible to falling sick, and wants to know who’s waking up the germs from their long naps. He wants to understand why and how the viruses and pathogens are being reactivated? He thinks maybe they’re just cranky because they missed their breakfast. Stuart discusses the problem of Methane, which is trapped in ice sheets and released into the atmosphere, and how it will take millennia for it to be fully emitted, but, even a partial emission can have detrimental effects. What do you make of this discussion? Do you have a question that you'd like us to discuss on this podcast? Let us know by sending an email to ⁠[email protected] This podcast's overall themes are nature, philosophy, climate, the human condition, sustainability, and social justice.  Help us to spread the impact of the podcast by sharing this link with 5 friends https://bit.ly/45vuCPP⁠ , support our work through Patreon ⁠https://bit.ly/3UmtDyr⁠. Find out all about the podcast via this one simple link: ⁠https://linktr.ee/thepeople