Payton Hoegh is the founder of All Wanderers, a spiritual community in Southern California, and the Spiritual Communities Director at the Center for Spirituality in Nature. Payton and Tony discuss going from the Southern Baptist Convention to the Episcopal Church, the surprising nature in Southern California, connecting with God most profoundly on a trail in the woods, hope and freedom, guarding against spiritual abuse, appreciating John Cobb, being rooted in relational thinking, and having a sense of responsibility for creation.