Tony's guest is Rev. Dr. Todd Littleton, a Baptist pastor in Oklahoma. Todd joined Tony on a canoe trip to the BWCA recently, and they talk about their shared experiences, paddling for the first time in 50 years, the importance of pilgrimage, lakes and trees and stillness and quiet, how hard it is to describe the BWCA, uncontrollability, finding subversive things, a long obedience in the same direction, and more.Find Todd at https://www.toddlittleton.net/, and find Rosa's book on uncontrollability here: https://amzn.to/3X7RQbfhttps://reverendhunter.com/Brought to you by Grain Belt Premium Beer (https://www.grainbelt.com/)