This conversation between Richard Hill and Deborah Bryon on the Science of Psychotherapy Podcast explores the intersection of analytical psychology, psychotherapy, and Andean shamanism. Bryon shares her journey from traditional psychological training to incorporating mystical and non-ordinary experiences into her practice, particularly through her work with Andean shamanism. They discuss the challenges and insights gained from integrating these diverse frameworks, emphasizing the importance of grounding mystical experiences in somatic understanding and the therapeutic process. The conversation also touches on quantum theory, fractal dynamics, and the role of metaphor in making sense of complex human experiences. If you are a SoP member, go to the course page for this conversation: thescienceofpsychotherapy.net/courses/deborah-bryon