Julie Cohen and Betsy West are best known as a team for their Oscar-nominated documentary RBG about Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. They’re also both former network news journalists. We talk about the differences and similarities between those two worlds (hint: one of them sounds more fun), the films that helped shape their sensibilities, and their films RBG, Gabby Giffords Won’t Back Down, about the former Congresswoman’s recovery from an assassination attempt, and My Name Is Pauli Murray, about the non-binary lawyer who played a key role in the civil rights movement. Julie Cohen’s 2023 film, Every Body, premiered at Tribeca and was released theatrically by Focus Features. Called “a master class in how a documentary should be done” by The Boston Globe, it tells of three courageous intersex people who've overcome shame and secrecy to become their true selves. Betsy West is a filmmaker, journalist, and professor emerita at the Columbia Journalism School. A 21-time Emmy Award winner, she served as executive producer of the ABC News documentary series Turning Point and as VP of News at CBS, where she oversaw 60 Minutes and 48 Hours. More about Julie & Betsy here. Films mentioned in this episode: RBG (2018), Dir. Julie Cohen and Betsy West Hoop Dreams (1994), Dir. Steve James  Gabby Giffords Won’t Back Down (2022), Dir. Julie Cohen and Betsy West Flee (2021), Dir. Jonas Poher Rasmussen Haulout (2022), Dir. Maxim Arbugaev and Evgenia Arbugaeva The Endless Summer (1966), Dir. Bruce Brown The World At War series (1973-74), Dir. David Elstein Roger And Me (1989), Dir. Michael Moore Buena Vista Social Club (1999), Dir. Wim Wenders My Name is Pauli Murray (2021), Dir. Julie Cohen and Betsy West Other Mentions: Senator Mark Kelly  Turning Point (ABC News) Cinque Northern Follow us on Instagram! @ThousandRoadsPod Special thanks for helping make this series happen: Sara Archambault, Florence Barrau-Adams, Jon Berman, Ben Cuomo (music), Jax Deluca, Pallavi Deshpande, Nancy Gibbs, Kathleen Hughes, Caroline Kracunas, Laura Manley, Alexis Pancrazi, Liz Schwartz, Jeff Seelbach, Lindsay Underwood (logo/graphics) This episode was supported by a fellowship at the Shorenstein Center on Media, Politics and Public Policy at Harvard Kennedy School.