Professor George Ellis and I discuss whether some things are ‘evil as a matter of fact, ’downward causation’ and why determinism is wrong, whether numbers exist in an eternal Platonic realm, and what give meaning to life George Ellis is Emeritus Professor in the Mathematics Department at the University of Cape Town, and visiting Professor in the Physics Department, University of Oxford. He is considered one of the world's leading theorists in cosmology. He is an active Quaker and in 2004 he won the Templeton Prize. On 18 May 2007, he was elected a Fellow of the British Royal Society. He co-authored, with Stephen Hawking, The Large Scale Structure of Space-Time (Cambridge, 1975). He has been awarded the Star of South Africa Medal by President Nelson Mandela T!M FREKE is a spiritual explorer since a spontaneous awakening when he was 12 years old. He is the  Founder of ‘Unividualism’, which combines evolutionary science and deep spirituality to offer a visionary new understanding of the nature of reality and the purpose of life https://timfreke.com Author of 35 books, translated into over 15 languages including an international bestseller and Daily Telegraph ‘Book fo the Year’. #50 Most Spiritually Influential Living People 2020, Watkins Magazine 📚 Winner of Writer of the Year 2020, Kindred Spirit ​