Nick and Sebastian hang out with Ava Ordman, professor of trombone at Michigan State University and general badass.  In our conversation, we delve into the world of music shaped by Ava's experiences. She recounts her struggles with people-pleasing, and the unique challenges of being chosen to perform Donald Erb's trombone concerto. But it goes beyond music; Ava opens up about her personal journey of transformation studying psychology, and how she learned to own her emotions and assert her boundaries. Listen, as Ava shares her wisdom on navigating the complex dynamics of teaching, including the importance of maintaining healthy teacher-student relationships. As we wrap up, Ava takes us through her journey at Michigan State University, and her decision to retire. Her story is a vivid illustration of the psychology of teaching and the importance of honesty, self-confidence, and setting boundaries. But the central theme in our conversation is the power of relationships - from her relationship with her therapist to her connections in the music world. From the physical to the emotional, from the trials to the triumphs, Ava's story is a testament to the power of resilience, self-discovery, and the pursuit of passion. Also introducing special features with Patreon: www.patreon.com/tromboneretreat Learn more about the Trombone Retreat and upcoming festival here: linktr.ee/tromboneretreat Hosted by Sebastian Vera - @js.vera (insta) and Nick Schwartz - @basstrombone444 (insta) Produced and edited by Sebastian Vera Music: Firehorse: Mvt 1 - Trot by Steven Verhelst performed live by Brian Santero, Sebastian Vera and Nick Schwartz Thank you to our season sponsor Houghton Horns: www.houghtonhorns.com Support the show