**Paid subscribers get full access to my interview with Ezzedine Fishere and Bernard Avishai, Dartmouth professors who teach a joint course on Israeli/Palestinian politics.** **The first hour and five minutes of this episode is available to all listeners. Want to hear the whole conversation? Upgrade your subscription here.**  As university campuses have become sharply divided in the wake of the October Hamas attack and the ensuing war between Israel and Gaza, Dartmouth has emerged as a model for productive dialogue among students and faculty alike. This is due largely to the efforts of Bernard and Ezzedine, who lead by example in and out of the classroom and have recently been featured on Sixty Minutes, PBS, and elsewhere.  In this conversation, they talk about their approaches to teaching, the professional paths that led them to the classroom, and how to honor personal feelings while encouraging intellectual humility over reflexive emotional reaction. Ezzedine also discusses the limits of viewing political history through a colonial/anti-colonial framework and Bernard reflects on the complexities of Zionism and why he was so excited about the Zionist project back in 1968. GUEST BIOS: Bernard Avishai, a Visiting Professor of Government at Dartmouth College, has taught at Hebrew University, MIT, and Duke. He's a Guggenheim fellow and author of four books. A regular contributor to The New Yorker on political economy and Israeli affairs, he has also written for Harper's, The New York Review, The Nation, and New York Times Magazine. Formerly an editor of Harvard Business Review and KPMG's International Director of Intellectual Capital, his upcoming Harper’s cover story on Israel’s culture wars will be released on January 15. Ezzedine C. Fishere, a renowned Egyptian writer and academic, is currently a visiting professor at Dartmouth College, teaching Middle East politics and cultures. His vast diplomatic experience includes roles in the Egyptian Foreign Service; UN missions in the Middle East and East Africa; policy advising for the Egyptian foreign minister; and senior political advising in Sudan under Kofi Annan; a senior political advisor to the United Nations Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process (UNSCO) in Jerusalem; and heading the political section at the Egyptian Embassy in Tel Aviv. ALSO: What Is Real? Eli Lake on Disinformation, Despair and Dead Ends in the Israel-Hamas War Travel Notes From A War Our Keffiyehs, Ourselves **HOUSEKEEPING** 📖 🌵Come see me in Austin, TX on **February 29** at Moontower Verses, talking about my book, The Unspeakable, and other literary matters. ✏️ Apply for Meghan’s co-ed Personal Essay and Memoir class. ✈️ Unspeakeasy Retreats: See where we’re going to be in 2024! 🥂 Join The Unspeakeasy, my community for freethinking women. 🔥 Follow my other podcast, A Special Place in Hell.