In this episode, Caroline takes us through the tick-tock of how, in late January and early February 2015, DSS went from having legal advice that said Robodebt was unlawful, to waving it through the Budget process. We discuss how something that is 'not consistent with legislation' is actually 'illegal', and the impacts of softening language on the bowels of ministers. Alison gives us a primer on the Columbia Effect, and how the over-simplification of technical detail led to a disastrous outcome from a meeting between DSS and DHS on 20th February 2015. This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be. Intro grab features Counsel Assisting, Mr Derek Greggery KC, and Ms Catherine Halbert, 8 December 2022  Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers.... Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service. Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers. While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right. If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself. The first eight episodes were recorded before the Royal Commission launched its report and so don’t benefit from the great wisdom of Commissioner Holmes. Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at [email protected]. Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!