Why can it be hard to hear whistleblowers in big organisations? Caroline takes us through Kathryn Campbell's response to whistleblowers that come in via the media and come in via the union, and thinks there's something in that.  Alison thinks it's a failure of change management - but is stuck on finding words to describe that aren't "waffle cloud". Danielle finally gets to ask 'what would Colleen do?' - but we all agree it takes a person of rare temperament to be as graceful as Colleen Taylor in blowing the whistle. You can find the anonymous letter from the whistleblower to GetUp! here. This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be. Intro grab features Ms Colleen Taylor, and Counsel Assisting Mr Scott, 13 December 2022. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers.... Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service. Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers. While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right. If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself. The first eight episodes were recorded before the Royal Commission launched its report and so don’t benefit from the great wisdom of Commissioner Holmes. Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at [email protected]. Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!