In this episode, Danielle and Alison bring the conflict on their views of behavioural insights. Danielle thinks it's a revelation that government started thinking about its customers and what works for them. Alison thinks it's oversold, and not always deployed in the interests of the people. Caroline wonders if we can all just get along. Ultimately, the listeners win. References from the episode include: If Books Could Kill podcast on NudgeRichard Thaler and Cass Sunstein Nudge: Improving decisions about health, wealth and happiness (2009).On the replicability crisis in behavioural economics, see Gideon Lewis-Kraus 'They studied dishonesty. Was their work a lie?' New Yorker. The intro grab features Jason McNamara (DHS) and Angus Scott KC, 5 December 2022 Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers.... Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service. Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers. While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right. If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself. The first eight episodes were recorded before the Royal Commission launched its report and so don’t benefit from the great wisdom of Commissioner Holmes. Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at [email protected]. Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!