The following is my conversation with Daniel (Danny) Lavelle. Danny is an award winning writer (winning the Guardian’s Hugo Young Award in 2017) and often covers metal health, homelessness and social care and is the author of Down and Out. Recently Danny wrote an article following an interview he conducted with AARO’s Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, which we discuss here, after backlash from some within the ‘UFO community’. I wanted to speak in person to the man who wrote the article to dig in to the nuance.