Martin Köppelmann, co-founder of Gnosis, has proposed that Ethereum should have native rollups—a vision aimed at addressing scalability and decentralization. Köppelmann critiques the current state of layer 2 solutions, highlighting their limitations in fully inheriting Ethereum’s security and composability.  He proposes a bold alternative: 128 Ethereum-native rollups designed to expand block space, strengthen alignment with Ethereum’s core principles, and ensure long-term viability for developers and users. Plus, Martin tackles the controversies: Are L2s parasitic? Could native rollups spell the end for existing solutions? And why should they rely on zero-knowledge proofs instead of Optimism? Show highlights: Whether the Ethereum scaling roadmap is accomplishing its goals Why based rollups are not a full solution, according to Martin What Martin proposes instead Why Martin is proposing these rollups to be ZK-rollups instead of optimistic Whether the proposed solution would focus on privacy What it is about chain abstraction that Martin doesn’t like How he envisions that these native rollups will solve many composability issues across L2s Whether the community has embraced this proposal and how likely it is to be implemented What would happen to current L2s if native rollups get implemented Why despite being against the current state of L2s, Martin says that they are not parasitic to Ethereum Visit our website for breaking news, analysis, op-eds, articles to learn about crypto, and much more: unchainedcrypto.com Thank you to our sponsors! Polkadot Robinhood & Arbitrum iYield Guest: Martin Köppelmann, Co-founder and CEO of Gnosis Links Previous coverage of Unchained on prediction markets: ETH Is Down Bad, While Layer 2s Are Ripping. Are L2s Parasitic to Ethereum? Are L2s ‘Parasitic’? Analysis Shows Ethereum Only Gets a Tiny Percentage of Fees Are Solana’s ‘Network Extensions’ Just Like Ethereum’s Layer 2s But by a Different Name? Ethereum Has Had a Banner Year in Most Areas. Except Price. Should Ethereum Layer 2s Urgently Decentralize Their Sequencers? Blockworks: Gnosis founder argues Ethereum needs native L2s Martin’s tweet on USDC yields Timestamps:  00:00 Intro 01:47 Is Ethereum’s scaling roadmap meeting its goals? 04:07 Why Martin believes based rollups aren’t the full solution 08:11 Martin’s bold proposal for native rollups 12:07 Why ZK-rollups over optimistic rollups 15:56 Whether these rollups should also preserve privacy 17:11 Martin’s issue with chain abstraction 22:35 How native rollups could solve L2 composability problems 26:49 Has the community embraced Martin’s vision? 30:52 What happens to existing L2s if native rollups win 36:06 Whether Martin thinks L2s are parasitic to Ethereum Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices