In this episode I get to chat to someone I have always considered a deep thinker on human animal relationships and anthrozoology. I have often described him as  "healthy sceptic" of the reported claims concerning the impact of pets on people., but he is also a leading figure in highlighting are moral ambiguities towards animals. Some may find the content of this podcast challenging, but as we conclude, although there are no simple solutions, if we stop and think, we can still act in a good way.  Hal Herzog has been investigating the complex psychology of our interactions with other species for a long time. He is particularly interested in how people negotiate real-world ethical dilemmas, and this forms the basis of much our discussion. He has studied animal activists, cockfighters, animal researchers, and circus animal trainers.  An award-winning teacher and researcher, he has written more than 100 articles and book chapters.  He is  also author of the brilliant thought provoking book "Some we love, Some we hate and some we eat"  In 2013, he was given the Distinguished Scholar Award by the International Society for Anthrozoology.