Jim and Ray welcome retired Major General Mick Ryan, Royal Australian Army and retired Rear Admiral Mike Studeman, U.S. Navy to discuss the importance of defending Taiwan. They highlight the profound consequences of a Chinese takeover of Taiwan and its implications for the United States, Australia and the region. They emphasize the need to communicate the significance of Taiwan to the public, and to strengthen deterrence against China's aggression. The conversation explores the challenges of deterrence in the modern age and the need for a comprehensive approach that goes beyond military capabilities. Mick discusses his recent book about a hypothetical war over Taiwan and the importance of land operations in the defense of Taiwan.