There is plenty of literature and scientific studies about so-called gay conversion therapy and it all says the same thing – it doesn’t covert people and it’s not a recognised therapy. Big psychology organisations across the globe oppose it and yet it still continues. Our guest on this podcast is a journalist and author who felt the need to covertly experience gay conversion therapy in order to write about it. Why people do it, how they get people in, and its dangers. We are joined by Mathias Chaillot, the author of the book 4% In Theory.