Jonathan Siegrist isn’t just one of America’s best and most prolific sport climbers, having climbed over 25 5.15’s. He’s also someone who thinks deeply about what climbing offers us, and works to make sure we stay on track.  In this episode, Kris and Jonathan discuss one of the most controversial topics in climbing, grades. How grades come about, what that means for outliers, how hard it is to quantify the experience of climbing, and how we can have a better relationship with these numbers that we all care about but pretend not to.  Check out more here! Join the Secret Stoners Club for FREE! ---------------------------------- Thank you to our partner, Tension Climbing. Tension creates tools to help you elevate your climbing experience. Check out the goods here and use code STONE for 10% off anything but the full Tension Board set-ups, hardware, and gift cards. When you support Tension, you're supporting the team at Plug Tone creating this show.  Written in Stone is co-created with Power Company Climbing. Use code STONE at checkout for 20% off. Details at www.powercompanyclimbing.com/stone