The newsletter company MailChimp made an impressive $700 million dollars in revenue in 2019 and, after 20 years, it’s still owned and operated by co-founders, Ben ChestnutandDan Kurzius. On this episode, Ben shares his tactics for staying focused and calm through market crashes, tech disruptions, and now playing role model for CEOs who think success requires treating employees poorly. Manoush and Jen aren’t so sure about Ben’s advice regarding “scaling.” But as they play voice memos from listeners going through professional zigs zigs, they realize a serious truth about their own small business. **Who You’ll Hear: **@manoushz (Manoush Zomorodi, host of ZigZag and cofounder of Stable Genius Productions), @jpoyant (Jen Poyant, cohost of ZigZag and cofounder of Stable Genius Productions), @benchestnut (CEO and cofounder of Mailchimp) ***Season 4 of ZigZag is examining the current culture of business and work, figuring out what needs to change, and experimenting with new ways to do it. *** Thank you for supporting us by using special offer codes from our sponsors, signing up for our free newsletter, and subscribing to the show on Apple Podcasts, GooglePodcasts, RadioPublic, Stitcher, Overcast, Spotify, or Breaker.