In this conversation, we talk about the beginnings of meditation research in the United States, Al’s courage and pioneering role in leading meditation research in the southwest at the University of Arizona long before it was mainstream, and what we’ve learned about meditation through research so far. We also explore Al’s path of practice in the Zen Buddhist tradition, the role of technology and apps to make meditation accessible, and his ‘second post-academic career’ as a meditation teacher in the Zen tradition.