Originally recorded on 09-27-2024 In this episode, Matt and Bill talk about the 32nd President, Franklin Delano Roosevelt and First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt.  Roosevelt was in office longer than any other president and led the country through more turbulence, both home and abroad.  And yet, what stands out is less Roosevelt's moral courage or altruism, and more his ability to fuse what he saw as good for the country with what was good for him politically, his shrewd political instincts, and his ability to mobilize both government and the population to get behind his vision and his policies.  His wife Eleanor, one of the most politically active First Ladies, operated from a similar frame of reference. HW Brands H. W. BRANDS holds the Jack S. Blanton Sr. Chair in History at the University of Texas at Austin. A New York Times bestselling author, he was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize in biography for The First American and Traitor to His Class. His most recent book is AMERICA FIRST: Roosevelt vs. Lindbergh in the Shadow of War.  To learn more about Country Over Self or to check out other episodes head to Countryoverself.com.  If you have an idea for an episode or want to reach Matt directly, please email [email protected] Country Over Self is edited and produced by Culture Collaborative Media.