Strategic studies expert Hugh White talks Australia's defence situation, arguing our political leaders are out of step with the rest of the region. How can we best spend our tax dollars to ensure that Australia's defence capabilities are 'fit for purpose'? What politics internationally and closer to home, are impacting Labor's decisions on shipbuilding and defence? And with the recent ASEAN-Australia special summit in Melbourne, do our leader see eye to eye with the region and each other on how to best manage the shifting strategic environment? On this episode of Democracy Sausage, Emeritus Professor Hugh White from The Australian National University (ANU) discusses making Australia’s defence ‘fit for purpose’ with Professor Mark Kenny.    Hugh White is an Emeritus Professor of Strategic Studies at ANU College of Asia and the Pacific.    Mark Kenny is a Professor at the ANU Australian Studies Institute. He came to the University after a high-profile journalistic career including six years as chief political correspondent and national affairs editor for The Sydney Morning Herald, The Age and The Canberra Times.    Democracy Sausage with Mark Kenny is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Google Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. We’d love to hear your feedback on this series, so send in your questions, comments or suggestions for future episodes to [email protected].  This podcast is produced by The Australian National University.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.