"Naysayers can be the biggest obstacle for people who want to travel. Even if they know nothing about a place, they'll think of reasons why you shouldn't go there." --Ari Shaffir In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ari discuss how the experience of travel changes as you get older, what it's like to record an interview in public in Paris, and how loneliness compels you to be a better traveler (2:00); what it was like to workshop travel stories in class, and how writing for the page compares to writing for the comedy stage (12:00); Rolf quotes Ari from The Vagabond's Way about why it's OK to get lost when you travel, and what it's like when you wander out of tourist zones in another country (22:30); and how naysayers can preempt your travel ambitions if you listen to them (46:30). Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the host of the Skeptic Tank podcast. For more information on Ari, visit his website. Notable Links: Paris Writing Workshops (travel writing class) Luxembourg Garden (park in Paris) The Vagabond's Way (Rolf's newest book) Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) Deviate Live in NYC (podcast episode) Thích Nhat Hanh (Buddhist monk) Callback (comedy) Xylia Buros: Nomad (podcast episode) The Book of Delights, by Ross Gay (book) High Times (magazine) Chefchaouen (town in Morocco) Tétouan (city in Morocco) Tataouine (city in Tunisia) Farang (Asian slang for white European) Kathoey (trans identity in Thailand) Boney M (Caribbean pop group) Marco Polo Didn't Go There, by Rolf Potts (book) Felucca (Egyptian boat) Temple of Hatshepsut (Egyptian temple) Dili (city in East Timor) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].