Subscribe to the IWI monthly newsletter by going to www.irregularwarfare.org! This episode explores the concepts of zero trust and persistence theory within the cyber domain and features a conversation with two guests: Mr. David McKeown serves as the acting DoD principal deputy chief information officer and Dr. Richard J. Harknett is professor and director of the School of Public and International Affairs and chair of the Center for Cyber Strategy and Policy at the University of Cincinnati. In the discussion, they first define these two concepts—zero trust and persistance theory—before highlighting how they complement each other in practice. They continue by explaining the importance of seizing and maintaining the initiative in the cyber domain and how it would be more helpful to shift to a mindset of persistent campaigns and away from the idea of isolated cyberattacks. They conclude with thoughts on the implications for future cyber strategies.   Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa CC BY-NC-ND 4.0