In this podcast, we hand over the hosting reigns to Lean Change Facilitator Richard Atherton - one of the leaders of Lean Change in the UK. Richard first discovered Venkataraman on LinkedIn in 2016 and was attracted to his incisive writing on organisations. In this episode they explore: What do we mean by bureaucracy? How do we “debug bureaucracy”? What’s the meaning and value of “working out loud”? Venky and Richard recommend the following if you’d like to dive deeper on bureaucracy: David Graeber's The Utopia of Rules: On Technology, Stupidity, and the Secret Joys of Bureaucracy Neil Postman's Technopoly: The Surrender of Culture to Technology Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy You can find more of Venky’s writing at LinkedIn, especially Debugging Bureaucracy and the Voldemort Effect.