Chris explains a logical dynamic that goes two ways: the more we have a felt need for certainty, the harder we pursue it. And we pursue it, of course, by doing compulsions. But the harder we pursue it, the more elusive it proves to be. And then, we're back to the beginning. We have a deep and urgent need for certainty. But that street travels two ways. This is where and how Pillars 3, 4, and 5 are connected. Check out this episode to learn more. Feel free to reach out with any questions you might have to [email protected]. If you've found OCD Straight Talk helpful, consider giving it a 5-star rating, and subscribing to the podcast for more structured help with your anxiety- or OCD-symptoms.