Most software engineers only think about their build system when it breaks; and yet, this often unloved piece of software forms the backbone of every serious project. This week, Ron has a conversation with Andrey Mokhov about build systems, from the venerable Make to Bazel and beyond. Andrey has a lot of experience in this field, including significant contributions to the replacement for the Glasgow Haskell Compiler’s Make-based system and Build Systems à la carte, a paper that untangles the complex ecosystem of existing build systems. Ron and Andrey muse on questions like why every language community seems to have its own purpose-built system and, closer to home, where Andrey and the rest of the build systems team at Jane Street are focusing their efforts. You can find the transcript for this episode along with links to related work on our website, signalsandthreads.com.