In this episode, we sit down with Pierre Rochard, VP of Research at Riot Platforms, and Bitstein, co-founder of the Nakamoto Institute, to discuss hyperbitcoinization and more. Pierre and Michael open by reflecting on its price history, historical cycles, and long-term outlook. They explore bitcoin’s progression onto the global stage, considering how central banks view it and where we are in the context of hyperbitcoinization. They address the critical balance between self-custody and bitcoin banks, including insights into the evolving role of custody solutions and associated risks. Discussing perspectives like those of Michael Saylor and Saifedean Ammous, they weigh in on bitcoin’s function as both an asset, a money, and the concept of bitcoin “yield.” The conversation covers MicroStrategy’s strategic approach to bitcoin and their perspective on the various models like S2F, power law, and Bitcoin24. SUPPORT THE PODCAST: → Subscribe → Leave a review → Share the show with your friends and family → Send us an email [email protected] → Learn more about Unchained: https://unchained.com/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=video&utm_campaign=TBF-podcast-description → Book a free call with a bitcoin expert: https://unchained.com/consultation?utm_medium=video&utm_campaign=TBF-podcast-description→ Buy bitcoin in an IRA—sign up today and get your first year free: unchained.com/frontier TIMESTAMPS: 0:00 - Intro 1:17 - Reflections on bitcoin cycles 3:21 - Long-term outlook 5:12 - Bitcoin on global stage 7:05 - Central banks’ view on bitcoin 14:03 - Defining hyperbitcoinization 17:05 - Self-custody vs. bitcoin banks 25:16 - Future of bitcoin custody 30:10 - Risks in custodial options 35:38 - Saylor vs. Saifedean on bitcoin banking 42:27 - Bitcoin yield vs. fiat yield 50:02 - MicroStrategy’s strategy 55:10 - Modeling bitcoin’s value 1:02:31 - Fiat vs. bitcoin volatility 1:04:15 - Challenging views in bitcoin community WHERE TO FOLLOW US: → Unchained Twitter: https://twitter.com/unchainedcom → Unchained LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/unchainedcom  → Unchained Newsletter: https://unchained.com/newsletter  → Joe Burnett’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/IIICapital → Pierre Rochard’s Twitter: https://x.com/BitcoinPierre → Bitstein’s Twitter: https://x.com/bitstein