The Loop is a Journalism Value project podcast, brought to you by Reference. We are interviewing the members of this network about key challenges for them, ranging from funding and business models, to community engagement and organizational structures, as we explore what success and sustainability looks like for European independent media today. On today’s episode we will be talking to Elisabeta Tola, the co-founder and president of Facta, an Italian nonprofit center applying the scientific method to investigative and data journalism. We will explore how investigative journalism can benefit from the scientific methods, about product thinking in journalism, about community building, and also about the benefits and disadvantages of not having a media outlet, but publishing in more established media outlets instead.