General Buy Matt and Alina Chan’s book ‘Viral: The Search for the Origin of COVID-19’: https://www.amazon.com/Viral-Search-COVID-19-Matt-Ridley/dp/006313912X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1GSU5N0P40R26&keywords=matt+ridley&qid=1648046232&sprefix=matt+ridley%2Caps%2C253&sr=8-1 Matt’s website, where you can find out more about him and his other books and work: https://www.mattridley.co.uk/ Follow Matt on Twitter: https://twitter.com/mattwridley References Some of Michael Worobey’s work on the origins of Covid-19: https://twitter.com/MichaelWorobey/status/1497607313397481472?s=20&t=_ov6duwWi7DQZDRa5t9q4A Two for Tea episode with Azra Raza on fighting cancer: https://soundcloud.com/twoforteapodcast/64-azra-raza-a-better-way-to-fight-cancer Two for Tea episode with Brian D. Earp on circumcision: https://soundcloud.com/twoforteapodcast/13-brian-earp Iona’s Areo article on circumcision: https://areomagazine.com/2019/09/24/a-wrong-against-boys-an-impossible-conversation-about-circumcision/ Timestamps 00.00 Opening and introduction: the debate over the origins of Covid-19, the reception of and controversy over ‘Viral’, and why the origins debate matters for everyone. 8:40 Will the origins debate ever be settled? 18:58 What we know for certain plus some possible scenarios of how Covid-19 spread. Matt explains why the ‘lab-leak’ hypothesis is plausible. 25:28 Objections to the lab-leak hypothesis and Matt’s responses. 42:30 Here be technical scientific stuff: the cutting edge of knowledge in molecular biology—how furin cleavage sites work. Plus: the duties of writing about science. 49:25 More objections to the lab-leak hypothesis and Matt’s responses. 1:11:50 The benefits and risks of gain-of-function research. Plus: circumcision and the problems with the World Health Organization. 1:21:32 Does ‘Viral’ underestimate the dangers of zoonotic transmission of diseases? Plus: the deforestation/ecological argument about Covid’s origins. 1:24:31 Developments since the publication of ‘Viral’ and the plans for the paperback. 1:27:50 Last words and outro.