Megan Gibson speaks to the economist and author Mariana Mazzucato, professor at the UCL Institute for Innovation and Public Purpose. The Big Con is her latest book, co-written with Rosie Collington, which exposes the consequences of governments’ dependency on consultancies such as McKinsey and Deloitte. “The more governments and businesses outsource,” they write, “the less they know how to do.” They discuss the rise of the consultancy industry and how these companies have, over the course of decades, enfeebled governments while making billions. They cover scandal after scandal, from McKinsey’s role in the US opioid crisis to Deloitte and Boston Consulting Group’s mega-profits from Britain’s test and trace system. Ultimately, Mazzucato makes the case for reimagining how we approach capitalism. Subscribers can get an ad free version of the NS Podcast on the New Statesman app   Podcast listeners can subscribe to the New Statesman for just £1 a week for 12 weeks using our special offer. Just visit newstatesman.com/podcastoffer.  Read more: Megan Gibson interviews Mariana Mazzucato: “Consultancies depend on weak governments” Will Lloyd on how consultancy bleeds Britain dry. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.