Putin has used digital disinformation against Ukraine and the West since long before the Russian invasion, undermining US and EU support for Kyiv by smearing Ukrainians as Nazis and denying Russia’s many atrocities. Are we already in an information war? And how do we win it? Gavin Esler talks to longterm Putin-watcher and post-truth analyst Peter Pomerantsev, author of How To Win An Information War: The Propagandist Who Outwitted Hitler about Russia’s post-truth strategy – and what the astonishing WWII story of British propagandist Sefton Delmer can teach us about fighting big state lies. • “Russia uses the term ‘information war’ across its strategy… They see everything from the BBC to NGOs as part of an information war machine ranged against Russia.” • “This is a very cynical worldview, where no journalism is genuine – it must have been ordered by some dark forces.” • “Putin knows that being able to lie and laugh in people’s faces is a sign of power.” • “Sefton Delmer gave ordinary Germans a safe environment where they could start to be disloyal to the Nazis… He gave people a form of psychological cover.” Buy How To Win An Information War and Peter Pomerantsev’s This Is Not Propaganda: Adventures in the War Against Reality through our affiliate bookshop. You’ll be helping to fund This Is Not A Drill by earning us a small commission for every sale. Bookshop.org’s fees help support independent bookshops too. Support This Is Not A Drill on Patreon to get early episodes, merchandise and more. Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices