Europe’s most powerful countries are in political crisis. Emmanuelle Macron’s big gamble to halt the progress of Marine le Pen’s Rassemblement National seems to have paid off – for now. But Germany’s far right Alternative für Deutschland continues to eat into the national vote and the country’s post-war consensus. What does the rise of extremists who are soft on Putin, or even pro-Russia, mean for the safety of Europe? Gavin Esler asks Economist Paris bureau chief Sophie Pedder about France’s close shave with extreme nationalism, and whether that escape is temporary. And director of eurointelligence.com and New Statesman columnist Wolfgang Munchau explains what’s driving Germany’s dance with the far right. Incogni keeps your private information safe, protects you from identity theft and keeps your data from being sold. There’s a special offer for This Is Not A Drill listeners – Go to Incogni.com/notadrill to get an exclusive 60% off your annual plan. Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices