How do you stay close to someone whose pain you can’t fix, whose questions you can’t answer? In this episode, Kate sits down with her dear friend, the Rev. Dr. Sam Wells, a longtime advocate of “being with,” a theology that goes beyond advice and into the sacred space of simply staying. Sam–vicar at London’s St.-Martin-in-the-Fields, an astonishingly wise thinker, and one of Kate’s favorite people on Earth–invites us into a deeper courage: to show up without trying to tidy things up.  In...

There are some realities we can never get over. And yet, we keep living. How do we do that well? Wilma Derksen writes and speaks on the topics of victimization and criminal justice. Her wisdom is hardwon. In the mid-80s, Wilma’s daughter, Candace, was murdered. Their family’s response to this tragedy has inspired so many people…and you’ll soon see why. In this conversation, Kate and Wilma discuss:  How we live with the things we cannot change What does forgiveness look like in...

This week we're introducing you to a show we love called A Slight Change of Plans with Dr. Maya Shankar. Kate was actually a guest on the show, where she joined to talk about how her entire belief system was thrown into question when she was diagnosed with Stage IV cancer at age 35.  If you want to hear more conversations like this one, listen to A Slight Change of Plans wherever you get your podcasts. Plus, the show has new episodes coming on November 11. See omnystudio.com/listener for...

How do we stay hopeful in the face of despair and disillusionment—especially when politics threaten to tear us in two? Kate speaks with Parker Palmer, a writer, teacher, and activist. As you’ll hear, he has gone through seasons of deep clinical depression, and has hard-won wisdom to share with us on how to survive, how to regain a sense of agency, how to remain hopeful despite it all.  In this episode, Kate and Parker discuss: finding agency in the midst of depression and despair...

We need more room to be honest about what it costs when people or institutions fail us. Today's conversation is with Lord Charles Spencer, the 9th Earl Spencer. You might also know him as Princess Diana's brother. His latest book, A Very Private School, is a courageous and beautifully written memoir about his time in an abusive English boarding school that was shrouded in secrets, abuse, and cruelty. While his circumstances may be unlike something you’ve experienced, Charles speaks so...

In every deep relationship, there comes a point where we are asked to give up something of ourselves or change in ways we never anticipated. Who will this make me? What will this love cost? Tembi Locke fell in love with an Italian chef named Saro when she was studying abroad in Italy during college. Their romance was a story for the big screen. (Quite literally. One starring Zoe Saldana.) A rare illness upended it all. Tembi spent ten years as Saro’s caregiver before he died. In her grief,...

What if you started thinking really concretely about small, hard choices? That’s exactly what palliative care physicians do every day. They help us think about what we really want—knowing that we have limited time and limited resources. You’re going to love our guest today, Dr. Kathryn Mannix, palliative care physician and cognitive behavioral therapist. She offers practical steps to help people and their loved ones make sense of what limited choices they have, navigate any pain and fear they...

Sometimes you really need someone to believe that you are good. Unshakably good. Over 30 years ago, Father Greg Boyle started working with gang members in Los Angeles through Homeboy Industries. The lessons that he learns from whom he calls “homies” are contagious. Every day, they teach him about what it means to heal, to belong to one another, to practice compassion, and to relearn how to feel good again to God and others. These are just some of the transcendent truths that he has to share...

Nurse and writer Christie Watson found herself in a grocery store fish-finger freezer and realized something was very, very wrong. Why was she so desperate for more? (And also, why was she so extremely overheated? Oh wait…hormones?) In this hilarious and hopeful conversation, Christie speaks with Kate about the importance of prioritizing joy in the face of our emotionally expensive professions and roles, as well as joy’s importance as we get older (and how lucky we are to age in the first...

This week we have something special for you. Kate Bowler joins Rainn Wilson to explore the complexities of American Christian traditions and the nature of suffering on Soul Boom. Kate delves into her personal journey with stage four cancer, her struggles with the American healthcare system, offering profound insights into faith, resilience, and the misconceptions of positive thinking. Together, they discuss the dichotomy of American religious practices and the deep, often unspoken struggles...

It is a hard time to be a person in the world given the volatile political climate or state of our world or the realities we’re facing in our family. But the weight of the world’s problems are not on your shoulders alone. Sharon McMahon, America’s Government Teacher, joins Kate for a hopeful conversation that reminds us all of the small, faithful ways we can make a difference in our communities.    In this conversation, Kate and Sharon discuss:  why it’s not our job to fix every...

We all experience seasons where all we can do is scratch our heads and say, “WHAT EVEN HAPPENED?!”  Dr. Francis Collins led the National Institutes of Health during 2020—our season of collective “WHAT EVEN HAPPENED!?” He is still picking up the pieces of heartbreak from how people responded to one another and to science at the time. Yet he hasn’t lost his faith in humanity.  In this conversation, Kate and Francis discuss:  Why faith and science seem at odds (and why they shouldn’t be) ...

Is it possible for anyone to change—change their mind, change their theology, change their priorities? What does it mean to hope when we live in such uncertainty? Richard B. Hays is a world-renowned scholar of the New Testament. He is also a dear friend and colleague of Kate Bowler. Richard and Kate were both unexpectedly diagnosed with cancer at the same time, which meant they spent many hours discussing the heart of what it means to hope. Their hard won wisdom adds such depth and heart to...

Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Nicholas Kristof understands how to hope—especially in the face of despair or disappointment. He has spent his life shining a light on global tragedies like the Tiananmen Square massacre or the genocide in Darfur. And yet, despite all the horrors he has born witness to, he maintains a sense of hard-won optimism. “Hope is a muscle,” he says, and one we can all learn to develop.  In this live conversation, Kate and Nicholas discuss:  How to maintain hope in...

Are you living your best life now? Not always? GREAT, ME NEITHER.  My name is Kate Bowler. I’m a Duke professor, bestselling author, and your friendly neighborhood Canadian. This is a show for people who have learned that life is… well, complicated. And we need better language to tell the truth about all of our ups and downs and in-betweens. I’ve always been fascinated by how we, as humans, try to make sense of suffering and happiness. Spoiler alert: there’s no magic formula, but there are...

Comedians have the ability to be unsparingly honest in ways that buck all cultural norms. It’s a truth-telling that so many of us crave.  Cue Rob Delaney.  Rob is a comedian, actor, writer, and director. His memoir, A Heart That Works is an unsparing account of the death of his beautiful son, Henry. Rob lives in London with his family where Kate visited him for this honest and hilarious conversation.  Kate and Rob discuss: The importance of finding people who really understand what...

There is this quote by writer and theologian Frederick Buechner. He writes, “Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid.” …But I always sort of wanted to amend his original words. Because the more honest truth is: “Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Be a little afraid.” Life is so beautiful. And life is so hard. For everyone. Sometimes at the same time. That is the premise behind my latest book of meditations called Have a...

How should you show up for people in grief? What do you say? What should you do? Why is it that beauty can exist alongside deep suffering? What can be said at funerals when the person who died was complicated? These are just a few of the questions I wanted to ask Steve Leder—a bestselling author and a rabbi who has presided over a thousand funerals with wisdom and kindness.  In this conversation, we discuss:   The mysterious way beauty can be found the closer we inch to death (our own or...

This is the story of one young doctor’s race against the clock as he searches for a cure for his own rare disease. In this conversation, Kate and David Fajgenbaum discuss: how love can turn hope into action what limited agency means how small steps can lead to big change This episode originally aired in 2020. Stay tuned to the end to hear an incredible update from David and the work he is up to now. He has expanded from finding the cure for his own incurable disease to developing an...

How hard is it to be a parent today? After a pandemic? With social media breathing down our necks? It’s so hard! Navigating the delicate balance between granting independence and providing guidance can be daunting as a parent.  Dr. Lisa Damour (New York Times bestselling author of The Emotional Lives of Teenagers) has dedicated her life to unraveling the intricacies of adolescence and offering practical, heartfelt advice. In this conversation, Lisa and Kate: offer a more reassuring...

What do you learn standing so close to the edge with so many people? Listen for wisdom on mortality and hope—like how the habits of love are hard to break and what makes a ‘good funeral’ directly from a thoughtful and funny funeral director himself. In this episode, Kate and Thomas discuss:  How the habits of love are hard to break, no matter how old the person died who you grieve How those we grieve know our hearts and our love more fully What elements make up a good funeral This episode...

Our most precious relationships are often our most complicated, aren’t they? Poet and bestselling author Kwame Alexander wrote an honest book of poems and essays that name the difficult and beautiful and heart-wrenching conversations we have (or should be having) with the people we love and with the ones who love us.  In this conversation, Kwame and Kate discuss:  How we can’t outrun our grief How our own parents love us in the ways they want to be loved, but maybe not in the ways we...

There is a strange tension when we want so badly for the people we love to support us, but want to shield them from the pain at the same time. This is a beautiful, terrible kind of love.  In this conversation, Kate and bestselling writer Suleika Jaouad discuss: What it is like to be the one suffering—all the guilt and shame and rage and mercy and grace  How we can create better economies of love around those who need it The toll illness takes on those around us This episode originally...

Are some people more empathetic than others? By studying those on the opposite end of the compassion spectrum–those with psychopathy–researcher Dr. Abigail Marsh discovered something surprising.  In this conversation, Kate and Abigail discuss:  The usefulness of fear What it means to be “brave” How we can all learn to belong to one another The power of empathy (and why it actually feels good to give to others) This conversation originally aired in 2020, but is one we return to again and...