Who am I if I'm not a pastor? In this episode Collin sits down with his friend, mentor, and former boss Josh Saenz (Founder of Compel You). Collin and Josh dive into: why (exactly) leaving ministry feels like a death, the role family played in their transitions out of ministry, and the pain of not knowing who you are outside of ministry. --- This episode of Holy Shift was edited and produced by Fohrm Studio. The song featured in the episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA