Welcome to It Was What It Was, and Part Two of our special look back at the remarkable career of Rafa Benitez - with the man himself! In this second part - Rafa, Jonathan and Rob look back at Rafa's arrival at Anfield, his influence on the Premier League, and then head backstage to explain the moments and decisions behind that iconic Champions League triumph in Istanbul. Join us as Rafa takes us inside the moments that defined his legacy in England, and cemented his place in Liverpool...

In this special episode of It Was What It Was, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by the legendary Rafa Benitez. Part One explores the early years of Rafa's extraordinary career, from his beginnings as a promising young coach in Spain to his groundbreaking success with Valencia. Rafa shares the stories, challenges, and philosophy that shaped his journey. Part One takes us up to his arrival in England - setting the stage for the Premier League's tactical transformation that Rafa would...

In this week’s episode of It Was What It Was, Jonathan and Rob take a deep dive into the fascinating journey of Thomas Tuchel, the newly appointed England manager. From his early years as a player with a mature football mind, to a detour studying economics while working in a cocktail bar, Tuchel’s path to football’s elite has been anything but ordinary.   Jonathan and Rob discuss how a timely call from Ralph Rangnick set Tuchel on a coaching trajectory that would see him manage some of...

In this week’s episode of It Was What It Was, Miguel Delaney discusses his new book: States of Play: How Sportswashing Took Over Football. Jonathan, Rob and Miguel assess how mega-rich investors and state-backed owners have transformed clubs and competitions around the world. The trio explain the impact of sportswashing on our modern game - where nations and corporations have used football to enhance their public image and gain global influence. Join us for a compelling insight into...

In this bonus episode of It Was What It Was hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper look into the striking parallels between Manchester United’s managerial struggles in the post-Matt Busby and post-Sir Alex Ferguson eras. Despite decades of history and immense success, the club has faced a persistent challenge in finding a manager capable of replicating the legacy left by its legendary figures. Following the recent sacking of Erik Ten Hag, the arrival of Ruben Amorim has reignited the age-old...

In Part Two of It Was What It Was, we dive into the explosive conclusion of the 1967 Intercontinental Cup clash between Celtic and Racing Club. With tempers flaring, the second and decisive third legs were anything but ordinary—featuring multiple send-offs, brutal fouls, and even a policeman with a drawn sword stepping onto the pitch. Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper guide you through the chaos and controversy that defined this historic showdown. Don’t miss the conclusion to one of football’s...

This week on It Was What It Was, we’re traveling back to 1967, when Celtic’s legendary Lisbon Lions clashed with Racing Club in an unforgettable, fiery three-match series for the Intercontinental Cup.   In Part One, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper set the stage before the first leg at Hampden Park, where Jock Stein’s side secured a 1-0 advantage to take to South America - though the real drama was just beginning.   Join us on Thursday for the thrilling conclusion of this historic showdown in...

This week on It Was What It Was, we're talking one of football's greatest rivalries: Real Madrid and Barcelona. In the week of El Clasico, Spanish football expert Sid Lowe joins Rob and Jonathan to discuss the history, politics and scandal behind possibly the biggest club match in football. If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode - and please consider leaving us a five star review to help others find the show. Thank you! Hosted on Acast. See...

Join us for the final part of our special series on the shoe salesman who changed football forever: Arrigo Sacchi.   In this episode of It Was What It Was, Sacchi comes to the end of his first spell at AC Milan and answers his country's call - managing the Italian national side at the World Cup in 1994 and Euro 96. This episode is the last in our series on Sacchi’s extraordinary career and his lasting mark on the sport. It starts with our Sacchi intro episode with Jamie Carragher (please go...

It Was What It Was continues our special look into the life and career of one of football's greatest and most influential managers: Arrigo Sacchi.   In this episode, Sacchi has finally arrived at AC Milan and, with a team of legends in the making, his greatest work is about to begin. This episode is part of our series on Sacchi’s extraordinary career and his lasting mark on the sport. It starts with our Sacchi intro episode with Jamie Carragher (please go back and listen if you missed...

It Was What It Was continues the epic story of arguably the most important manager in modern football history: Arrigo Sacchi.   In this episode, Rob and Jonathan explore Sacchi's rise through the coaching ranks. Sacchi earns his spurs in youth coaching, before his impressive work at Parma turns the head of Italian giants AC Milan, and their enigmatic owner Silvio Berlusconi. This episode is part of our special series on Sacchi’s extraordinary career and his lasting mark on the sport. It...

This week on It Was What It Was, we continue the epic story of arguably the most important manager in modern football history: Arrigo Sacchi.   Following-up from last week's episode with Jamie Carragher (please go back and listen if you missed it!), Rob and Jonathan go back to Sacchi's roots and how his legend began. We discuss Sacchi's early years, from shoe factories to football coaching - and the family tragedy that changed the Italian's destiny and the destiny of European football. This...

 Welcome to The Overlap's football history podcast, It Was What It Was.   Special guest and Liverpool legend Jamie Carragher join hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper as they explore the legacy of one of football’s most iconic managers: Arrigo Sacchi.   Widely regarded as one of the greatest minds in the sport, Sacchi led AC Milan to back-to-back European Cup triumphs in the late 1980s, building a team that Carragher grew up idolising.   In this episode, Carragher discusses Sacchi's profound...

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. On this week's episode we travel back to one of the biggest financial scandals in early English football—the 1904-05 Manchester City scandal. Journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper unravel the events that saw Manchester City, fresh off their FA Cup win, embroiled in controversy over illegal player payments. It Was What It Was explores how the Football Association’s wage cap led to the club’s...

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. As Aston Villa return to Champions League football this week, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper take a deep dive into the club's most iconic moment: their 1982 European Cup triumph. It Was What It Was revisits this historic victory, made even more remarkable by the fact that manager Ron Saunders resigned midway through the season, leaving Tony Barton to step in and guide Villa to European glory. Jonathan...

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. This week, our hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper dive into the extraordinary journey of Lionel Messi, widely regarded as the greatest footballer of all time. With his 2022 World Cup triumph marking the pinnacle of an already legendary career, Jonathan and Rob take a journey back to Messi’s beginnings. They explore his childhood in Rosario, the crucial role his family played in his development, and...

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. This week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper tell the story of probably the most-consequential football club takeover ever: When Roman Abramovich bought Chelsea in 2003.   Before sportswashing was even a word and in an age when Financial Fair Play didn’t exist, we examine the background to the most-startling and unexpected deal in Premier League history. And the extraordinary impact it would make, as...

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. This week, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore the connection between Ferenc Puskas and Ange Postecoglou, and how the Hungarian idol influenced the Australian coach. Regarded as one of the greatest players of all time, Ferenc Puskas’s post-playing career saw him manage across the world, including stints in Spain, America, Greece, Saudi Arabia, and Australia. It was in Australia where Puskas, the...

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was.    In Part One, journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper set the scene for Liverpool’s incredible 4-3 win over Newcastle in April 1996. We now delve into the game itself and the consequences that follow.    Having been 12-points clear in the run for the Premier League title, Jonathan and Rob provide an in-depth look into how this game symbolically ends Newcastle’s title chances and ultimately leads...

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was.    In this week’s episode, we take an in-depth look into the true classic that was Liverpool v Newcastle in April 1996, as The Reds snatched a victory in the final moments in front of the Kop.   Journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the backstory of the season, giving context coming into the game, including Newcastle’s 12 point-lead as they looked to be in the clear for the Premier...

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. In this week’s episode, journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper take an in-depth look at Pep Guardiola's journey to becoming a football legend. Focusing on the early stages of his coaching career and the political landscape at Barcelona, Jonathan and Rob explain how the Catalonian club turned to Pep during a turbulent period. Under his leadership, Barcelona experienced its most successful era in...

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was.    In this week’s episode, we take an in-depth look into a game that was full of trouble -The 1974 Charity Shield at Wembley between Liverpool and Leeds, during a time when behaviour on and off the pitch was declining English football.    Journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the social context and lead up to the game, including a new Liverpool under Bob Paisley and a new Leeds under...

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. This week, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into one of football's dirtiest ever games: the infamous Battle of Santiago in 1962. Regarded as one of the most brutal matches in football history, the Battle of Santiago saw host nation Chile face Italy in a violent and chaotic encounter at the World Cup. Jonathan and Rob detail the events leading up to the game and the explosive incidents on the...

*This episode of It Was What It Was discusses issues including racism, with content that some listeners may find offensive.* Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was.    In this week’s episode, we take an in-depth look into the successful Uruguay National team of the 1920s and one their key players, Jose Leandro Andrade, who was perhaps one of the first to spark a global mania over a footballer.    Journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper...