【聊了什么The What】 准备这期节目的时候，我脑子里一直出现西班牙艺术家弗朗西斯科·戈雅的的一副版画——《怪物诞生于理性的梦中》。在一定程度上，奥本海默讲述的就是这样的一个故事：人类在打开潘多拉的盒子、把公式里隐藏的魔法释放到人间，却无法控制释放出来的东西。年初ChatGPT出现的时候，许多人开始担心人类是否面临着另一个“奥本海默时刻”、是否释放了另一个可能毁灭我们自己的怪物？而对另一些人来说，沉湎于科幻般的未来本身就是值得批判的。 这期节目，我们继续这场关于电影《奥本海默》的对话。在这一集中我们讨论了钱学森的一生，与奥本海默自己的故事作了平行对比，探讨了由科学开放性与国家忠诚之间的张力引发的伦理问题，并探讨了我们自己对“AI末日论”的看法。 In preparing this episode, my mind kept going back to a print by the Spanish artist Francisco Goya – The Dream of Reason Produces Monsters. Its themes resonate eerily with the moral complexities of Oppenheimer – a man haunted by the monster he dreamed into reality. When ChatGPT went live earlier this year, many people started asking – does humanity face another Oppenheimer moment? Did we unleash another monster? – and many others started to find that question itself distracting, or even dangerous. As we delve into the second installment of our conversation on Oppenheimer, this episode also shines a spotlight on Qian Xuesen's life, drawing parallels with Oppenheimer's own story. We probe the ethical issues arising from the dichotomy between scientific openness and national allegiance, and unpack the burgeoning anxiety around an so-called AI apocalypse. 【时间轴 The When】 00:00 钱学森和奥本海默人生的平行与交错 10:34 科学家身份与国族身份之间的张力 26:07 我们该如何讲述原子弹的故事 35:09 “人工智能”是下一个原子弹吗？ 00:00 The Parallels and Intersections in the Lives of Qian Xuesen and Oppenheimer 10:34 The Tension Between Scientific Identity and National Identity 26:07 How Should We Narrate the Story of the Atomic Bomb? 35:09 Are we facing another Oppenheimer moment? 【拓展链接 The Links】 Our Oppenheimer Moment: The Creation of A.I. Weapons Oppenheimer and After Ordinary Notes Copenhagen HSS at the Movies 【疲惫红书 CyberRed】 除了播客以外，疲惫娇娃的几个女的在小红书上开了官方账号，我们会不定期发布【疲惫在读】、【疲惫在看】、【疲惫旅行】、【疲惫Vlog】等等更加轻盈、好玩、实验性质的内容。如果你想知道除了播客以外我们在关注什么，快来小红书评论区和我们互动。 Apart from the podcast, we have set up an official account on Xiaohongshu. We will periodically post content such as “CyberPink Reading,” “CyberPink Watching,” “CyberPink Traveling,” “CyberPink Vlog,” and more. Those are lighter, more fun and more experimental stuff about our lives. Leave us some comments on Xiaohongshu! 【买咖啡 Please Support Us】 如果喜欢这期节目并愿意想要给我们买杯咖啡： 海外用户：https://www.patreon.com/cyberpinkfm 海内用户：https://afdian.net/@cyberpinkfm 商务合作邮箱：[email protected] 商务合作微信：CyberPink2022 If you like our show and want to support us, please consider the following: Those Abroad: https://www.patreon.com/cyberpinkfm Those in China: https://afdian.net/@cyberpinkfm Business Inquiries Email: [email protected] Business Inquiries WeChat: CyberPink2022