WE need to take action on climate change. WE need a revolution. WE need to unite and tackle the problem. Etc.  But who is this "we"?  Politicians and campaigners love to invoke it. It has powerful rhetorical force. But does this confusing "we" give us any sense of what each of us can actually do? Is it a linguistic problem or something more profound about how our brains think about collective agency? And how the heck do "we" actually go from not doing enough, to doing so? Joining Dave to talk about all things "we" and collective agency is Jonathan Rowson. He's CEO and founder of Perspectiva, a charity working on the relationship between system, souls and society. He is also an author and a  chess grandmaster (who once thrashed Dave at chess while being interviewed). Owl noises: --  15:01 -  Jonathan's Substack piece that prompted this interview. -- 18:46 - The United Nations High Seas treaty. -- 22:05 - More from Jonathan on the metacrisis. -- 27:08 - Hyperobjects. -- 29:07 - Off topic it may be, but here's the Jeavons paradox. -- 29:43 - A chat between Jonathan and John Vervaeke about the agent in the arena. -- 37:42 - I chatted to Rupert Read about the Climate Majority Project a few episodes back. Your Brain on Climate is a podcast about human psychology vs the climate crisis: what we think, why we think it, and how it all adds up to a planet-sized emergency.  Contact the show:  @brainclimate on Twitter, or [email protected]. Support the show on Patreon: www.patreon.com/yourbrainonclimate. The show is hosted and produced by me, Dave Powell, who you can find @powellds on Twitter.  Original music by me too. Show logo by Arthur Stovell at www.designbymondial.com.