Christmas leave plays an outsize role in Robodebt. Danielle takes us through some of the questions raised about Christmas leave, including who holds the can when people are on leave, and how 'hovering' while you're on leave can confuse and disempower. She also makes a case that government should never, ever shut down over Christmas, because our work never ends. Meanwhile, Alison gives another excellent life hack - this time about taking work emails off your phone on leave. As promised in...

In September 2014, at the very moment DHS invents Robodebt, the APS receives a frank assessment of its limitations in the form of the Final Report Home Insulation Program Royal Commission. In this episode, a review of the 'pink batts' Royal Commission report shows the key failings that recur. Why is it so hard as a public servant to say 'we can't do this in the time allowed?' How should generalists respond when asked to engage in technical subject matter that we don't understand? And once...

In our final episode on the algorithmic nature of Robodebt, we tackle the implications of  algorithms being commercial in confidence property of third party providers, legacy ICT systems, plus recognise we need to lean in to understanding AI and how it works. We do a second mini-dive into the Great British Post Office scandal - this time into the systemic racism that underpinned its operation. We finish up by thinking about how AI black box decision making may interact with a historic...

How will automation impact the ability of people to seek review of administrative decisions by government agencies?    In this episode, we talk about the human bias toward thinking computers are right, and take a brief digression into another public service scandal - The Great Post Office Trial - where discrepancies on a computer screen were used as proof to send people to jail. You can find Alison's homework reading by former Chief Justice French here. This podcast was recorded on...

The first of a number of episodes on the algorithmic nature of Robodebt. This episode focuses on big data in government - what we know about it, the ways in which data can be hard to use, and the supreme importance of context. Danielle talks about disappearing from a government system, and Alison gives an important life hack to all double-barrelled surname holders. You can find a link to the Professor Darren O’Donovan article mentioned up front here. This podcast was recorded on Kaurna...

Why can it be hard to hear whistleblowers in big organisations? Caroline takes us through Kathryn Campbell's response to whistleblowers that come in via the media and come in via the union, and thinks there's something in that.  Alison thinks it's a failure of change management - but is stuck on finding words to describe that aren't "waffle cloud". Danielle finally gets to ask 'what would Colleen do?' - but we all agree it takes a person of rare temperament to be as graceful as Colleen Taylor...

In this special episode, Caroline and Danielle unpack their feelings about the Royal Commission Report, five days after its release. We also pick through some of the Commissioner's key findings, as they relate to things discussed in previous episodes. If you are new to the podcast, we suggest you start at the beginning and come to this after you've listened for a bit. You can find Rick Morton's podcast here, and his books On Money and 100 Years of Dirt. Intro grab features Ms Colleen...

In this episode, Caroline takes us through the many different ways in which lawyers in the Commonwealth Government knew that Robodebt was illegal well before the Federal Court settlement in late 2019. You might not remember who wrote the constitutional law text book, but you would remember going to a conference where an eminent KC dismantles your program point by point.  Danielle's deep loathing of ritual data collection proves sensible when we discuss the work that DHS lawyers did in...

In this episode, Caroline takes us through how DHS responds in early 2017 when things start hitting the fan. Aggressive defence is the name of game in the media, while in the background frantic efforts are made to improve 'the customer interface'. We talk about how DHS backed themselves into a corner, and despite a lot of senior attention to solve problems,  never picked up the rock to check what was underneath. We also talk about how hard it is to fix something while it's operating. We...

In this episode, Caroline takes us through the reaction of DSS in early 2017, when it becomes clear DHS hadn't abided by the agreement they thought they had to kill Robodebt.  However, far from handing DHS over to the Ombudsman, DSS engage in a process that looks like ‘a conspiracy to conceal stuff up’, in the inimitable words of Commissioner Holmes.  We discuss how hard it is to check in on the work of other agencies, the unlikely role of Christmas, and the awful impulse to keep things...

In this episode, Caroline takes us through the tick-tock of how, in late January and early February 2015, DSS went from having legal advice that said Robodebt was unlawful, to waving it through the Budget process. We discuss how something that is 'not consistent with legislation' is actually 'illegal', and the impacts of softening language on the bowels of ministers. Alison gives us a primer on the Columbia Effect, and how the over-simplification of technical detail led to a disastrous...

In the second episode of two episodes exploring the culture in DHS and how it contributed to Robodebt, Danielle takes us through the pressures being experienced on the frontline in Centrelink. From the rise of employee engagement surveys, the use of temporary labour hire, to the decline of unions, this episode explores the importance (and challenge) of knowing what's going on the frontlines. You can find the Centrelink culture review we discussed here. This podcast was recorded on Kaurna...

The first of two episodes looking at the role the culture of DHS played in enabling Robodebt to get off the ground, and keep moving, in spite of all the red flags. In this episode, Danielle talks us through the ways in which Secretary Kathryn Campbell and her leadership team set the tone, and the efforts of later leaders like Renee Leon to fix the culture. We discuss our own experiences of trying to improve the culture of teams, and how hard you have to work to make safe spaces. This...

Where did Robodebt come from? In this episode, we track the genesis of Robodebt in the heart of the compliance division in the Department of Human Services in late 2014. This is a cautionary tale about a bright idea that gets fast tracked by senior leadership, who have their own reasons for taking it forward, and aren't very interested in whether what they’re pushing will actually work.  This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was,...

An explainer episode on what Robodebt is, how it unfolded, and why public servants should be interested in finding out more. Far from a political conspiracy, the Robodebt Royal Commission has shown that it was a creature of the public service. Join Alison, Danielle and Caroline, as they reflect on the lessons of Robodebt through the lens of their public service careers.  Credit to Rick Morton for the incisive way he explains Robodebt, which we have cribbed in this episode. You can read his...