In this edition of Eusebius on TimesLIVE, he was joined by founding CEO of Diversi-T Terry Oakley-Smith to examine a range of issues on antiracism. Bringing her wealth of experience to bear on the conversation, Oakley-Smith started by explaining how little cross-racial contact and lack of early formation of cross-racial friendships shaped her own and many other white people's lack of appreciation for the lived experiences of black people. She explains it often requires intentional work or momentous experiences for even “progressive” white people to recognise the salience of race.